Original Link: https://www.anandtech.com/show/1562




Walking Around in Circles

If you look at history, things tend to go in cycles. The climate of the earth transitions between ice ages and global warming; political power ebbs and flows over the face of the world; fashions come and go, only to return again as something "new" and "exciting". It should come as no surprise that we see the same thing in the realm of computers.

The first home computers were crude by today's standards. They came in large boxes that were beige in color, they weighed a ton (folklore claims that the first executives to see the IBM PC prototype looked at it, picked it up, and declared that it would never sell because it was "too light" to be a real computer!), and it goes without saying that they were slow. The expansion options were also rather limited. You could add a second floppy drive, or if you were really wealthy, you might try out a hard drive; but for the most part, you bought the box and then used it until it was time to upgrade.

Over time, we began to see a larger array of options. The cases began to come in different sizes and shapes, and no longer were we confined to two or three drive slots. The mid-tower case was created with room for three or more external 5.25" drives, two external 3.5" drives, and three or more internal 3.5" drives. It was even possible to make use of all of these expansion options at one time. Back in the early 90s, we had 5.25" and 3.5" floppy drives, hard drives, tape backup drives, and there were even devices such as the old Iomega Bernoulli drives (precursor to the Zip/Jaz drives). We also saw the introduction of CD-ROM drives, followed by CD-R, DVD-ROM, and now DVDR. Some of the devices have faded away, of course, but at one point in time, it was conceivable for a case to hold at least two external storage drives (floppy and Zip), a CD-ROM, and two or more hard drives. Then there were the other expansion cards. You might have a graphics card, hard drive/floppy drive controller, network and/or modem, sound card, SCSI card, and possibly even one more card for some specialized use - a SCSI card for a scanner was not uncommon.

Thankfully, we no longer have these issues - at least not to the same extent. What has changed? Maybe things are cycling back around to simpler days? Maybe this is progress? Perhaps it's a story of convergence? In actuality, it's probably all these things and more. Why have a CD-RW and DVD+RW drive in addition to a DVD-ROM drive when a single DVD+RW drive can do the work of all three? At most, you might need a second drive to allow for disc to disc transfers. Contrast this to several years ago when some CD-RW drives would have difficulty reading CD-ROMs and CD-ROM drives could have difficulty reading CD-Rs. Now, one drive can handle all formats properly - not just in theory, but also in practice. Having two hard drives might be nice at times, but there are very few instances where it's absolutely necessary - one large, fast drive is usually sufficient. As for expansion cards, who needs them? You get sound, network, hard drive, etc. all on the motherboard, and often graphics as well. You might get a graphics card, and even sound and SCSI are still possibilities, but that's usually as far as it goes. External interfaces have now been merged into USB and Firewire, which offer simplified connections along with higher performance. So, why stick with a large, heavy case when you don't need all that extra space?

Obviously, Shuttle asked this exact question of their engineers back in 2000 or so, and the answer was that we don't need the large cases - or at least, most of us don't. It's worth mentioning that Apple has been asking these same questions for a long time. In fact, it was only later in Apple's history that they started to give more expansion options. Maybe Shuttle just wanted to copy Apple, but regardless of what sparked the idea, the Shuttle XPC was created and released on an unsuspecting world. Thus was born the Small Form Factor (SFF) case.




Reactions to the Small Form Factor

Depending on whom you ask, what happened next is up for debate. Either the SFF was a colossal success, or else we simply have a case of "monkey see, monkey do." Whatever the reason, the reaction of the industry was clear: SFF became a hot topic, and virtually every motherboard manufacturer came out with their own design.

As is often the case, the quality of the derivative efforts varied. Some were better in certain areas and worse in others; other designs were cheap, quick copies that failed in nearly every aspect, but few and far between were the designs that wholly improved on the original. Imitation may be the sincerest form of flattery, but flattery isn't worth much in the business world - just ask Xerox how much money that they had earned off the "flattery" of both Apple and Microsoft.

(Those who follow computer games have witnessed a similar phenomenon with the "revolutionary" genres: Wolfenstein 3D created the first-person shooter, and in a short while, there were dozens of knock-offs. Then it happened again with Doom and Quake; Dune II and Warcraft spawned the real-time strategy genre, and there followed a slew of clones of varying quality.)

Meanwhile, it's difficult to say what actually happened in the computer community. For all the reviews that have been written on the emerging world of SFFs, they don't seem to be that common. This is a personal view, but I have never been asked to service a computer that was in a SFF case, I've never been asked to build a SFF system for someone, and I never really gave the subject that much thought. With all the choices out there, what did people buy? I think a lot of people simply felt overwhelmed and went with what they knew: the old, reliable ATX case.

Why would all these companies put so much effort into this market when it doesn't seem to be all that popular at retail? Perhaps the manufacturers like creating a complete system, with a power supply and case that they approve for use with their motherboard. They might even be able to make more money off the sales - case manufacturers have to make money to survive, as do the power supply manufacturers; combining all three would give you all the profits, assuming the margins make it worth the effort. It could also be that the cases are actually selling very well and I simply don't run in the same circles as the typical SFF purchaser.

Regardless of the explanation, the fact remains that until recently, I had read plenty about SFF cases, but I had never actually touched one. Why would anyone want to spend more money for a system that had less expansion possibilities? I certainly couldn't see a reason for it! After all, if a new CPU socket came out, your case would now need to be replaced along with your motherboard and CPU.




Time Changes Everything

Things have slowed down now in terms of computer progress - at least from my perspective. It's also good to see that many of the truly bad examples of computer hardware have begun to fade away. Gone are the days (mostly) of spending hours trying to get a resource conflict resolved; or to get two machines to talk to each other over the network; or tweaking and hacking your config.sys and autoexec.bat files in the hope of optimizing memory usage so that some new program would run properly. Computers have now matured to the point where any person with a moderate level of computer knowledge and a willingness to learn would have little difficulty building a computer.

The requirements for most computer applications are also slowing down. There used to be a good reason to upgrade your computer from a 286 to a 386, and then from a 386 to 486 to Pentium, Pentium to Pentium II, etc. While it was released at a time when the 486 occupied the sockets of the majority of systems, Windows 95 really needed a Pentium or faster to run well. Windows 98 pushed the requirement up to a Pentium II, and Windows XP pushed it to the Pentium III/Athlon. Today, however, there are few applications that really need a lot of processing power; anything over 1 GHz is sufficient for surfing the Internet, writing email, working in Office applications, etc. To a lesser extent, even the high-end requirements are starting to slow down. A state-of-the-art PC is not absolutely required for the latest games; even a 2 GHz machine can handle Doom 3, Half-Life 2, and Far Cry. True, it's not the best experience out there, but for many people, "good enough" is all they need.

So what does this all have to do with Small Form Factor computers? This is up for debate, but there doesn't seem to be a whole lot on the horizon that will really outdate a modern system - short of a few high-end applications and games - and the amount of integration has made large cases unnecessary for all but the most die hard enthusiasts. Few people will actually fill an 80 GB hard drive, let alone a 160 GB drive, and if 1 GHz is all that's really needed for typical computing, a 3 GHz machine could easily last for many years. Other areas have "maxed out" as well: DVD-ROMs all top out at 16X, and with DVD+RW drives now supporting 16X burn speeds, we aren't likely to go beyond that for a while; only the introduction of a new optical media format is likely to cause any difficulties. Even the floppy is finally disappearing, thanks to the abundance of Flash memory devices. In short, this is a great time to buy a system and keep it until it physically breaks down, and a SFF fits in very well with that plan of action.

A growing concern for a lot of people is the noise output of their computer(s) - "I want my computer to be quiet, not rattle the windows!" A home-grown system will often have several fans to keep it cool, and the noise levels can be very annoying to say the least. More than a few people have ended up with Dell systems simply because they are engineered to reduce the noise output - performance be damned! SFF cases offer the benefits of OEM systems - systems where the designers know the exact constraints of the system and can better plan the placement of components - to the DIY community. It's not all that unusual to see a motherboard with fan speed adjustment settings in the BIOS, but you don't always know that everything will work properly if you use them. Since a SFF includes the case, CPU heatsink and fan - which can also act as the case fan - power supply, and motherboard, they have a great idea of what will actually be used in the system. Depending on the model, you might have one or two optical drives, a hard drive, the CPU and graphics card, and that's it. As computer noise has become a pet peeve of mine - odd, given that I work in a data center as a side job - taking a look at the SFF market seems like a good idea.




Close Encounters

Writing for AnandTech puts me in something of a unique position. Few brick and mortar stores carry a large selection of SFF cases, and looking at pictures online doesn't always tell the whole story. With AnandTech, we have a large number of SFF units, many still waiting to be reviewed. (A SFF roundup will be coming soon, in case you were wondering. This is just a preface to the roundup.) The plan wasn't for me to begin using one of these cases as my own system initially, but system instabilities with one of my own computers caused me to change my mind. While I RMA the motherboard that is apparently causing problems and wait for its return, I decided to adopt one of the SFF cases for my own use - but which one?

Understanding that aesthetics are a completely personal view, I checked out all of the cases. They all look pretty good, depending on your own taste - what I hate, someone is bound to love, and what I like, some will think is boring. In the end, I built two of the units just for purposes of a "test drive" and I picked what are basically the two extremes of the SFF genre.


Click to enlarge.

Click to enlarge.

On the one hand, we have the ASUS T2-P Deluxe. Depending on your point of view, it may not even qualify as a true SFF design. Featuring two CD/DVD slots, a 3.5" floppy bay - the floppy drive is actually included with the case - and an internal 3.5" HDD, not to mention a ton of other extras, the ASUS SFF includes everything and the kitchen sink. (The manual states that a CD/DVD drive is also included, but it was not present in this unit. This is possibly due to the fact that this unit was sent for review purposes, but it could also just be an error in the manual. We will try to get the official word from ASUS for the formal review; for now, it has a spare DVD-ROM in it.) Audio, fast Ethernet, USB2.0 and IEEE 1394a Firewire are pretty much standard features on any SFF. Add to that a six-in-one flash card reader, gigabit Ethernet, a radio tuner and antenna, integrated graphics, 802.11G wireless networking, and even serial and parallel ports, and you have a package that leaves little to be desired in terms of features. ASUS does limit your expansion options in one area, however. Many of the extras are included on a PCI add-in card, so your expansion card options are limited to adding an AGP graphics card.


Click to enlarge.

Click to enlarge.

The other unit is the latest from Shuttle, the XPC G5. Shuttle has been in this game longer than any other company, and after taking a look at all of the units stacked up, the design of their latest G5 model caught my eye. It's available in a few different formats: socket 775 with an 875P or 915P chipset and socket 939 with the Nforce3 250 Ultra chipset. Shuttle also has many other non-G5 XPC models that are worth checking out. Since the graphics card that would be used was an AGP model, PCI Express and the 915 chipset models were out of consideration. The system won't be used much for gaming, and the GPU would be the limiting factor anyway, so I ended up with the SB77G5 instead of the SN95G5. If I were actually to recommend an XPC model, I would choose the SN95G5 normally, but I wanted to try out a socket 775 system, as I had not yet done so. The features of the SB77G5 are similar to the ASUS T2-P Deluxe, only with less "extras". You get Firewire, USB2.0, Gigabit Ethernet, one 5.25" external bay, one 3.5" external bay, and one 3.5" internal bay. There's a good reason for the lack of extras, of course. The Shuttle XPC G5 is one of the smallest SFF cases out there.




Some Assembly Required

Other than pre-built systems, every home-built computer requires some assembly. It's not terribly difficult, but the first time that you build a computer, you'll likely run into some difficulties and you may require help. Our basic assembly process is as follows:
  1. Install the CPU, heatsink, and RAM on the motherboard.
  2. Put the motherboard standoff screws in the appropriate locations on the motherboard tray. (This is not always necessary, depending on the case.)
  3. If the case doesn't include a power supply, install one now. Certain cases allow you to do this later, but on many, the CPU HSF can get in the way, so it's better to take care of it first.
  4. Install the motherboard into the case - carefully, of course.
  5. Connect all the small wires from the front panel of the case to the motherboard. For many, this can be the most difficult part as the wires and connections are small, and they are not always labeled clearly. If you can understand technical manuals, you should be able to figure it out, but it can still present problems for even the best of us.
  6. Install the hard drive(s), floppy drive, and optical drive(s) and connect their interface cables.
  7. Connect all the power cables to the drives and motherboard and clean up the cables with zip ties, twisty ties, Velcro wraps, etc. You don't have to clean up the cables, but it's always nice to do so.
  8. Install any expansion cards - usually, at the very least, a graphics card. If necessary, connect a power cable to the graphics card.
  9. Add in any extra case fans that you'll be using as appropriate. (It might be easier to do this early in the build process, depending on the case.)
  10. Connect all the external devices - keyboard, mouse, monitor, etc.
  11. Power up the system and verify that all of the fans are spinning, and then proceed to install and configure the OS and applications.
That's not meant as a comprehensive guide to building a computer, but just a rough overview of the process. The reason for this is that when you shift to the world of SFF cases, things change quite a bit. For starters, several of the steps are unnecessary as the motherboard comes pre-installed. All of the front panel connections are already in place, as are all of the rear connections. Depending on the case, the remaining changes vary, but here's the revised process for most SFF cases:
  1. Remove the CPU HSF from the case if it was pre-installed - this is done in about 2/3 of the cases. You may also have to remove the power supply in some designs.
  2. Install the CPU and RAM, then reinstall the CPU HSF.
  3. Install the DVD, hard drive, etc. into the case. Many of the designs have a metal unit that holds the optical drive, floppy/flash drive, and hard drive. You remove this, install the devices, and then put it back into the case. Other designs are more like a miniaturized ATX case.
  4. Connect all the power and interface cables to the devices and clean up the cables as necessary.
  5. Install the graphics card - with a power cable if necessary.
  6. Connect all the external devices - keyboard, mouse, monitor, etc.
  7. Power up the system and verify that all of the fans are spinning, and then proceed to install and configure the OS and applications.
While that may be a shorter list, the total time to assemble a small form factor system is actually not much different from that required for an ATX case. The reason for this is that the cramped quarters of most SFF cases make the routing and installation of cables take longer to complete. The other devices can also be much more difficult to install, depending on the design. My experience with the two SFFs used here was quite different.



Click to enlarge.


The ASUS at first seems to present no problem, as it is basically a miniature ATX. As the setup progresses, however, several issues become apparent. First, the PSU needs to be removed before the RAM and CPU can be installed. Once that's done, the installation of the other drives can begin. The optical drive, in particular, takes far more effort than normal as the front panel needs to be removed before the DVD can be slid into place; and after mounting the drive, you put the front panel back on. The floppy comes pre-installed, however, and as the case is supposed to come with an optical drive, this step should be unnecessary. The hard drive cage has some issues of its own. First, it needs to be unscrewed and then slid out, and once the hard drive is mounted in it, you have to slide it back into place. This can be rather difficult, due to the numerous wires in the area - it took a couple minutes for me to get it installed properly. The cables for the DVD and HDD are not pre-installed, which means that you have to do it as well, and getting the cables to look clean for the DVD takes some effort. The AGP card wasn't particularly difficult in itself, but again, the pre-installed PCI card that powers many of the extras can get in the way. So, it may need to be removed and then replaced after the AGP card is installed. Once everything is done, the ASUS works fine, but the process could certainly be more efficient.


Click to enlarge.

Click to enlarge.

The Shuttle design is much smaller, and after the difficulties with the ASUS, I expected more in the way of difficulties [with the Shuttle]. However, it ends up being a lot easier. The HSF and case use thumb screws, for starters. Once the case is open, you remove the HSF and the metal cage that holds the optical drive, floppy drive, and hard drive. This opens things up quite a bit, and the actual installation of the CPU is done easily. With the drive cage removed, it is easy enough to install the optical drive, hard drive, and floppy. (You could also use a 3.5" Flash drive in place of the floppy if you so desire - Shuttle sells these as an optional accessory.) Once this is done, you drop the cage back in place and replace the screws. Shuttle also has several of the interface cables pre-routed and plastic clamps are placed strategically throughout the case to help keep everything tidy. One difficulty with the G5 design is getting the eject button of the DVD/CD drive to line up properly with the button on the flip-down cover of the case. If the drive is misplaced by more than about 1/16 of an inch - either too far forward so that the button is always depressed or too far back so the button doesn't reach in far enough - you need to reposition the drive and try again. This same problem could also arise with other cases, and there doesn't seem to be a perfect solution, so it's something to be aware of, but not to be considered a serious problem. Like the ASUS case, however, once everything is put together, you won't notice these issues.

When you get right down to it, assembling a SFF system is about as difficult as assembling an ATX system, with the exception of installing the motherboard and connectors. That exception can actually be a pretty major deal to those new to the world of system building. If you're a first-time system builder, SFFs can be a very good stepping stone. We should also mention that many companies will pre-build systems - SFF or ATX - to your specifications for a nominal fee.




Living with a Small Form Factor

Once everything is assembled, the internal differences between computer systems tend to disappear. This is not intended as a formal review of either of these systems, so we'll dispense with the benchmarks. For typical use, any modern system is going to be plenty fast. Only stressful applications like games, video editing, or 3D rendering/modeling will really benefit from a change in components. On a regular basis, I use everything from a 1.13 GHz P3 up through an Athlon XP 2500+, Pentium 4 2.8C to 3.4E, and Athlon 64 3000+ to 3800+. Benchmarks will usually tell a story of one being faster than another in a variety of tests, but other than the old P3 system, all of them feel pretty much the same in day-to-day use. (Even the P3 is sufficient for surfing the web and office work, of course, provided that you have a little patience.)

So what do I notice now that I've changed from a decent quality ATX case to a SFF case? For one, the SFF units are both quieter than my ATX case - not by a large margin, particularly when I use my fanbus to turn the RPMs down, but enough that you will notice the lack of noise. My old system actually had a Western Digital WD800JB drive in it, and I had never thought much about the noise that it was making. Moving it to the Shuttle eliminated a lot of the fan noise, and suddenly, the high-pitched whine of the hard drive could be heard clearly in my living room. It was annoying enough that I ended up ghosting the drive over to a Seagate model to eliminate the noise. How I managed to cope with the noise level of my old setup amazes me.

We have several recordings for those who want to compare the noise levels. These recordings were done with a Creative MuVo NX, so they don't have amazing fidelity, but they should give you a decent idea of the noise levels of various setups. First, we have the Antec 3700-BQE with all the fans at minimum RPM, and then, here they are at maximum RPM. I use the maximum RPM setting when overclocking the CPU and graphics card while running 3D games; at stock clock speeds, it is definitely not required. Also worth mentioning is that the CPU has the Zalman CNPS7000A cooler on it, which is regarded as one of the quietest CPU coolers. In contrast, we have the Shuttle and ASUS SFF units, measured at the same distance of 12 inches from the case. Both recordings are of the units powering on, and the process is the same on each. First, the fan spins up to full speed right after booting, and then it slows down to a more typical speed. During all of our testing, the fan RPMs noise never seemed to rise above the default level, so the initial two seconds is the only time that we really hear the fans. For those who are interested, here is the recording of the Shuttle case with my "loud" Western Digital drive - the difference is not as noticeable in the recordings as in person due to the low quality microphone, unfortunately.



Click to enlarge.


Beyond the noise factor, about the only thing noticeable is that my large case is no longer sitting on top of my desk. Instead, there is a smaller, sleeker-looking case sitting in its place. My cases, incidentally, are all sitting on top of desks. Anyone who has experienced the joys of a toddler can guess why - no sooner did my daughter start crawling and walking when the power buttons on my computers started calling her name. Many of you probably don't have that concern, but if you have to put a case up on top of a desk for whatever reason, SFFs are very nice to have. It has been a while since I lived in a cramped college dorm room, but if memory serves me correctly, that would also be an ideal situation to have a smaller case - especially when paired with a 17" LCD.

One last problem that I encountered after a few days bears mention. I needed to use my printer, and I hadn't bothered reconnecting it after the box swap for whatever reason. I have an older Laser printer that still works fine, but while it can use a USB connection, it has some problems. The printer is one of the first models to support a USB connection; if it isn't powered on when the system is booted, Windows won't see the USB device and you have to unplug the USB cable, power on the printer, and then plug it into a different USB port. It also tends to "disappear" and require the same steps to be repeated once every couple of days if I leave my computer running. However, the printer also supports an LPT connection that eliminates these problems, making that the preferred connection. I discovered to my dismay that the Shuttle box lacks an LPT port - it just hadn't occurred to me to look for one. After I configured these two units, I was very glad that the ASUS box included an LPT port. If you still use an older printer, you should probably pay attention to that detail; about half of the SFF units that I've seen opt not to include a parallel port.




Final Thoughts

I've been using computers for over twenty years now, and I've been building my own systems since the glory days of the 386 and AT/Baby AT cases. After the nightmares of getting older baby AT systems working, ATX was a breath of fresh air. Many of the compatibility issues disappeared. Things have now matured to the point where pretty much anyone with a decent head on their shoulders could figure out how to build a computer from scratch. (If your VCR or stereo is blinking "12:00" at you, this probably doesn't apply.)

After a lifetime of using boring beige cases, I moved on to black. (Yeah, I'm a "rebel" like that.) Now, I'm to the point where I'm furnishing my own apartment and I'm starting to worry about making things look nice. (When I say "I", I'm really talking about my wife as well as myself.) I think a nice SFF or two (or four?) looks a lot better sitting in a room than the bulky tower cases. You may or may not agree with that sentiment, but if you're willing to spend the extra $50 price premium for a SFF case, I think that you will be pleased with the change. There are a few caveats, of course.

While benchmarks were not a part of this article, there are some areas in which SFFs still can't match ATX configurations. For starters, all the high-end performance options become difficult, if not impossible, to incorporate into a SFF box. Two hard drives in RAID 0 is still possible for a small performance boost, but you'll have to sacrifice either a floppy bay or 5.25" bay for one of the drives. Larger 2-slot graphics cards are not going to fit well (if at all) in these diminutive cases, and features such as SLI are simply not possible without a major redesign of the case internals - someone out there is probably already working on such a design, of course. The limited expansion options extend to other areas as well. Most, if not all, SFF motherboards only include two RAM slots, limiting you to 2 GB for DDR and 4 GB if you can manage to find 2 GB DDR2 DIMMs. SCSI drives are also out unless you really want to push the limits of the design. None of these things are a deal breaker, however. Discounting SLI graphics, a properly built SFF can offer very close to the same performance as a typical ATX system. If you really need more performance than that, you're probably already running a dual processor workstation or server.

The other area in which SFF systems tend to fall short of their big brothers is in enthusiast options such as overclocking. Some of the systems include overclocking settings in the BIOS while others entirely eliminate it. Even when they include the options, though, a larger case provides for better cooling, which can lead to better overclocking - a Thermalright XP-120 HSF is not going to fit into any of these cases, if you hadn't noticed. Extreme overclocking devices including water cooling and peltier coolers are also out - unless you want to heavily modify the case. As before, none of these shortcomings are really deal breakers.

As for the two units that I've been using, how do they stack up? If it were me, which one would I want? In terms of features, the ASUS clearly wins out, but the Shuttle system is roughly half the size of the ASUS. To keep things in perspective, the Antec SLK3700-BQE case that was replaced is still about twice the size of the ASUS box. If you won't use many of the extras like the radio tuner and wireless networking, there's little point in having them. Conversely, if you want wireless networking, a flash card reader, and a floppy drive along with the standard DVD and HDD, the shuttle would be unable to fit your needs. Since my printer basically requires an LPT port, the Shuttle wouldn't be able to qualify on its own, unfortunately. (Add-in LPT cards are available, but I prefer a system that includes native support over an add-in card.) There is also a punchout location for an LPT port on the rear of the Shuttle, and you can purchase an adapter that should fit for $9 from Shuttle, but we would like to see the cable included by default considering the cost of the case.

That is the crux of the problem in searching for an ideal SFF case: there are very few SFFs that allow you to have everything that you could possibly want. ATX cases can accommodate a virtually limitless number of upgrades and extras, but SFF designs always make some compromises for the sake of size. Fitting in a large graphics card like a 6800 Ultra is simply not possible on most of the models, and even where it can physically fit, you still may not have enough power to run it stably. The sanity of using such a card in a confined space is up for debate as well - the heat output may exceed the case's ability to dissipate that heat, or at the very least, it would lead to higher noise levels.

If you can live with the above limitations, small form factor designs are really great. They tend to show much better design goals than ATX cases, with aesthetically pleasing looks and less noise pollution. They do cost a bit more and offer fewer expansion options, but when you consider how much money is often spent on non-essentials in the home - like furniture that matches the décor better - the cost is really a pretty minor factor. Laptops are another alternative to ATX cases that many consider, but unlike SFFs, the performance of even the best laptops still trails behind that of a similarly priced desktop by a large margin.

We're working on a large roundup of SFF cases that should be finished some time later this month, so if this initial look into the SFF world - from my biased perspective - has piqued your interest, stay tuned!

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